An interview with British voiceover legend - Peter Dickson
/Peter Dickson is a legend of the British Voiceover scene.
His voice is instantly recognisable to most, and he even has the moniker of "Voiceover man". This Christmas, I sat down with Peter to enjoy a couple of glasses of fine whisky, and also for a wide ranging discussion about the ins and outs of Peter's career, including his impressions and thoughts on various voiceover topics including;
Why living in the country is good for recording
Is it still important to go into studios to do VO? Or work remotely?
Why it’s best to keep your studio setup simple
Is microphone choice important?
Why a more expensive microphone won’t make you sound better.
Is microphone placement important?
Why is consistency important? And how to achieve consistency across recordings
Strange sounds in the studio…
What is a typical day like for Peter Dickson?
Getting jobs in the US vs the UK
Why is it good having an agent?
How voiceover work is stratified in different levels
How hunting for clients turns into farming your clients as your career progresses
How Peter is interested in aviation
What are some of the highlights from your career in TV?
Your voice is very recognized in the UK, what’s that like?
What is the range of your voiceover work?
How there are different genres of voice over work appearing
That X Factor voiceover, and how it came about
Why committing to the performance is so important
What are some of the highlights from Peter’s career - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaBt_bXlXmk
Is it important to set goals?
How did gravy for the brain come about?
Recap of the most important things we’ve learned about voiceover this year
What are some of the trends in VO for 2022?
What is Christmas like in the Dickson household?
Here is a transcript of our conversation:
Toby Ricketts
Welcome to vo life with gravy for the brainy Oceania My name is Toby Ricketts. I talk to the VO superstars in the world today the movers and shakers, people who are making things happen and who people are talking about. And it's my great privilege coming up to Christmas to share a lovely glass of whiskey with one of the most notable voice actors in the world. Definitely the UK, I think he was voted as like the most recognizable voice spent in a national poll recently. But he's also been the voice of The X Factor, and so many other things, the Olympics, a billion different documentaries and different things. So it's my great pleasure to welcome my friend and colleague, Peter Dixon.
Peter Dickson
Well, thank you very much indeed for that lovely intro. And I see you're opening your whiskey and I've got my whiskey here. I've actually pre poured mine in good TV fashion, so I'll probably top it up as we go along. But anyway, why don't you pull your I know we will get me through most of it.
Toby Ricketts
Exactly. I had a bottle. Don't worry.
Peter Dickson
You're well ahead of a sec. Good. Cheers.
Toby Ricketts
Merry Christmas. Yeah. Mm hmm. I'm on the Glenmorangie. Neck that I'm on
Peter Dickson
the I'm on the Macallan, which is a bit harsh, but it's a special occasion.
Toby Ricketts
Exactly. Yes. It'll be nice when we can share a glass in person next time you're on the same side of the planet.
Peter Dickson
I know. Isn't it remarkable though, that you know you're in Australia and I'm in London well as near as dammit. But we are you know what the other side of that we're opposite sides of this planet. Yeah, to each other. And yet, we're speaking in sort of, almost 4k video. And we are was no delay. I mean, to my father, who was you know, he, you know, funny, when he was alive, this would have been he died about 20 years ago, this would have been amazing to him, he wouldn't even believe this was possible. And yet, here we are taking this for granted now. Not only just to do this kind of thing, but also in the way we work, which we'll get onto I'm sure in some at some point in very near future. But this to me, this is amazing. And and we take it for granted. But it is an extraordinary thing that satellites and you know, high tech, fiber optics and all these things can make this sort of thing possible it is and revolutionize the way we work
Toby Ricketts
it has exactly and I feel like because I remember finding out that, you know, the first video phone call was actually invented in like the 1950s. And that everyone's kind of it's one of those technologies that's been in the wings, it's been possible for a very long time, but difficult, and even up to sort of like 2010, sort of 2011 we still weren't really using it on a daily basis, like we do now. Like I use Zoom absolutely every single day. And it's only really in the last sort of four to five years. And now with the pandemic, just you know, it's driven home that we use it constantly in that video calling is basically the standard, you know,
Peter Dickson
yeah. Yeah, it's a no Jimmy I've got, I talked to a colleague here in the UK, who has converted his studio into a almost a TV studio. He's a he's a, he's an audio artist. But what he's done is quite clever. He's, he's created a studio with a video, I haven't done it in mind. But he's got a a wide angle lens on his camera. And behind him, he's got a an LED screen on which he can put the client's name or logo. So when he's working for someone, he has the client's logo behind him, which they love, because everybody loves their name or their logo to be displayed. And so that really, that that initiative has given him that kind of leverage, which most of us wouldn't even think of doing and and they his clients absolutely adore him for it. So he does all of his sessions remotely, but they are done. Not just audio but video as well. So they can see him doing it. Yeah, now I do some of my sessions like that, but not all of them. But he leads the way in this he's really created a fantastic studio where it looks like this, like a TV set
Toby Ricketts
exactly what I'm going to steal that idea somewhat because like I've kind of set mine up a bit like it like I've got lights that I can change the colors and everything on like and I've got a professional cinema grade camera as the as the webcam for this. But in the new studio I was planning on having and focusing more on the background because like it's so interesting with Zoom calls and when you do connect with clients these days about who chooses to blur out their background, and who chooses to kind of emphasize the thing that you know, that they want to emphasize, and things like that. It's funny how they actually make a difference. Like I noticed, you know, our colleague JMC always has his we joke that you know, his voice Arts Awards that are lined up along the Seeliger holding up The roof, because I've got so many of them. And it just I feel like it's one of those subliminal things that when you do connect with clients, they go, Well, this guy knows what he's doing. You know? Like, it's, it's another factor. Whereas if you blur out the background, it's kind of like, are they working out of their spare cupboard? Like what's going on there? You know. So it's I feel like the Zune background thing is a whole new paradigm of kind of marketing. That hasn't really been explored yet. So yeah, some space behind you there. What are you gonna do with I've got,
Peter Dickson
but I could do something here. I suppose I could have a screen there or something. Yeah.
Toby Ricketts
Getting this logo on a curtain. So I could, you know, have it back and forth.
Peter Dickson
Yeah. But I think the the old sort of green screen thing is sort of over done. Now. People know, you know, if you're trying to pretend you're in or you're out your windows, the Pacific Ocean. It's not gonna work. But I think I think you're right. So make it real, but make it relevant to them. And this is this guy. I know he's done this. This screen, he puts his clients logos up on nearly on the LED screen. It's a fantastic way of, of really cementing your relationships. Absolutely.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah. That's fantastic. So you were saying that you, you do some sessions remotely, because you use sort of your living outside of London? You're sort of an hour or so from the train, I think, from London. And yeah, yeah.
Peter Dickson
I'm about 35 minutes from the West End of London. So I happen to skip basically, where I live is in the middle of where I live is in the countryside. So I am literally I've no name, I can't see anybody near me. I'm, I've known known that my nearest neighbor is probably a half a mile away from me. So it's the best of both worlds, but best of both worlds for me. So I love being here. And and, of course, being in this sort of remote rural location means that there's no real problem with noise Ingress. Here, though, I have a very well, insulated studio, but I don't have to worry about anything I worry about the occasional tractor goes by, or maybe an aircraft or a helicopter or something, but it's very short lived. So I don't have these because as many people will have, as, you know, the constant rumble of traffic perhaps, or trains going by every 10 minutes. I don't have any of that. So I'm very lucky.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, it is. It is one of those considerations. I mean, I really enjoy living out in the country for the same sort of reasons that there's very little reason that there is noise apart from the current studio, there's there's rain noise on the roof, which is why I'm building the new studio that we were discussing. And the casual logging truck that goes past down the country road that I live on. And planes, of course, as you say, but but living in the country definitely has its benefits for voiceover I think especially now things are mostly remote, you know, and how much of your work do you do remotely?
Peter Dickson
I would say more and more of it now, I think probably, but the majority of the bigger commercials that I do that the higher paying ones, the big agency jobs, they still want to see you in town. And so I go in to London for those. I'm happy to do so because they pay me well. But but all the other stuff, as you would imagine all the kind of jobs that I do for corporate and smaller commercial work for regional stations. I do from here, all of it. And so this rather nice, rather nice lifestyle balance where I go to London, maybe about twice a week, perhaps and the rest of the time I'm here which which suits me fine. I love I love the I wouldn't want to be in town all day long every day would be be too much. I think I've got a perfectly balanced now.
Toby Ricketts
Absolutely fantastic. And did that change. I noticed when I when I had a British agent. They said you know, everyone loves your voice. But the fact that you can't appear in person is a big like it's it doesn't do well for you, you know, you really need to be here. Clients really want to press the flesh, they want to meet the voiceover artist and stuff. And I found that kind of surprising because in the American market, it's almost it's not exactly the opposite. But it's like you can you can do anything online now you can just source connect them to anywhere and it doesn't really matter even for the really big commercials that don't need to actually see you in the studio. Did it's a different city in the UK.
Peter Dickson
No, I think I think the past year has changed the perceptions immeasurably and irreversibly as well. I think, you know, we have had a scramble for everyone to have a home studio in the UK in the USA. Yes, most of most established voice talent had their own studio facilities. Not all but a lot of them did in the UK. A lot did but a lot didn't. And when the pandemic struck, they were no longer able to go into studios in town. So there was a scramble to build home studio facilities. And so they did that and I think that's now become much more acceptable to play Who are the younger producers I work with, for instance, in back three years ago would not be prepared to work with me in my home studio. And most of the studios who I was working with, for obvious reasons, because, you know, they they have their own, you know, their own businesses to, to, to kind of worry about and to maintain. They were very unhappy they would not to sort of countenance clients working with me remotely because there's a it was used to find fault with my audio, whatever it was, for whatever reason, of course, there was no fault. But because they were trying to justify their existence. It's interesting there because most clients now I work with most agencies, I work with a quite happy to work for me remotely. More and more so and I think that's a great thing. Because it widens there also widens their talent pool, because so you could be you in where you are New Zealand are on an equal playing field now with me? No. So they can they can, they can access you as well as they can meet as easily as they can be. So that's, in many ways. It's, it's leveled the playing field for all of us. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's quite a good thing, particularly for the product, the end product of the client love it.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, absolutely. That's fantastic. And so with your home studio, I mean, obviously, you know, you mentioned they do need to conform to a technical spec, there's still a base level at which it needs to operate on Are you a kind of a studio nerd Do you like to get get you know, deep into the technical stuff? Or are you more of a technophobe, or do you sit somewhere in the middle.
Peter Dickson
Now, I like to keep things as simple as possible, Toby, I think, my rig my setup is here is very simple, I've got a actually just bought a MacBook Air, which is, you know, I love Mac's they work and so and and because I work in mainly in audio. The DM one processor in the MacBook Air is perfectly capable of looking after the standard audio session without too much demand. And I have a you know, I've a focus right to itu here and, and I've got a couple of mics I've got a range of microphones around me I can use for various things. So the reason I did that was because I've got a place in America as well. So I go I did go traveling a bit and I wanted to be able to create the same sound and have the same technical lack of complexity if you like wherever I am. So I just have a very simple setup. It's digital and digital out and my booth is the sound that creates when I'm in here but like when I go to my home in America I just take the same kit with me protect my 414 which 416 shotgun mic which is great mic to travel with because it's so light and it's very robust. You've got my MacBook Air my to ITU and that's all you need really is I can I can create the same audio quality as I do in the studio here as anywhere in the world. Yeah, so I'm a big fan of keeping it simple.
Toby Ricketts
Totally Yeah. And I had that revelation probably about four years ago when I was doing quite a lot of traveling as well. And I had a young like one of the the kind of like one of the best microphones in the world and women use 67 which is like the valve version of the 87 which is my primary mic but it had this huge power supply you had to carry travel easily doesn't travel easy and you need power is the other thing whereas you know if you have a phantom powered mic like before one six not only is it super directional so you can record in pretty much any space you know you can make it work but it's can be you know, bus powered off your off the interface which is powered from the laptop so you don't know You know, I've recorded stuff in the back in the backs of cars and car parks before no mains power required. Exactly great battery only. So it's so that's definitely a trick for and people often do get caught up in the sort of the tech stuff and go down tech rabbit holes of what makes should I buy and it really it doesn't matter as much as it used to because everything is fairly capable nowadays, especially if you go with something that's really tried and tested like a 416 and the scarlet two twos there. It's a great combo.
Peter Dickson
Look, I mean, people the first question, most newbies asked me, What mic do I have? I said, Well, I happen to have a 416 and I've got a m for Sennheiser and I've got I've got various other things in the cupboard I can use but it's not the point. I mean, you know, if you're spending I think I sort of sort of set the bar at about 200 pounds about $300, you know, upwards doesn't matter. I really Yeah, nobody's going to be able to tell the difference unless you're really good. You can spend you know, 2018 102,000 pounds or $2,200 on a UAC seven perhaps but, you know, if you're, if your vocal technique or your microphone technique is not great or your studio doesn't say Write one of these very high, high fidelity microphones like a UID. Seven isn't going to make you sound any better, in fact, is going to magnify any of the issues you have with your with your space or with your technique. So, you know, oftentimes it's better not to have that sort of level of quality in the microphone, but to have something that's just does the job well enough? Yeah, exactly. You don't have to,
Toby Ricketts
you don't have to spend. I found that exactly. Because I recently purchased a UHD. Seven. And I was very, like, I'm very happy with the sound of my booth with the four and six. And I thought, you know, this, this will be like the next level up, and it was kind of a reward to myself too, because I've always wanted one as the iconic, you know, microphone, it's like that you just see someone with that. And you're like, you know what you're doing. But I found that when I set it up, and I spoken to it, it did exactly what you said, it magnifies the flaws in my room, because it's a cardioid and not a shotgun. So it was picking up different ambiences that I didn't set this room up for. So I've put it away for when I build the new studio, and I'm going to tune the studio around that new microphone. But it was a shock, it was kind of a shock. It was I still was formed to that newbie principle of if I buy an expensive microphone, I'll sound better, which is it's not it doesn't work like that it's capable of producing a better quality sound, if everything else is at the same level. But if it doesn't, it just shows all of the flaws out which was a real, you know, it was good to relearn that lesson for me.
Peter Dickson
Well, I'm glad you learned the lesson, Toby because so many of us don't. And we all love we all want to have a you 87 I've never had one never had the need to have one. But you know, I know many of my friends and colleagues do have them and they love them. But he's like having a Rolls Royce. You know, it's the badge and and if you can afford it, yes, I would highly recommend them. And I work with them a lot in London studios where I where I work a lot, but I I love my shotgun. And not normally people do live in because they're very directional. And depends what you're doing. So if I'm doing, say, long form narration or audiobooks, which I don't do very much, but doing so let's say a corporate long form. I will switch into the end for which I've got just up here on another stand. I can pull that down. You see I can do this. Yeah. Or I can use my you can't see it, but I could probably pull it down. You can see my mic there. So I've got a range of things randomly so I can it's horses for courses really but this is this I do mostly commercials and promo so this 416 works very well for me because and a lot of light Entertainment Television. So big TV shows I'll do on that my because it's crisp, it's spot on. It cuts through. It's got a nice, dynamic. And whenever I process it, I do a lot of my own sort of EQ and compressing that microphone. Bar any I've used is perfect for what I do.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Actually, I've I bought my full review six have you got there in front of you. It's 416. It's a vintage four and six. I bought it actually on Ebay. I bought it as an experiment because I was using nomen K mid fours, which are like little pencil. Yeah, but they're still cardioid. But they were very detailed and very pop sensitive. Like I had to have three or four pop filters between me and the mic because they were so sensitive. And they didn't travel well. And they were costing a lot to maintain because they had some components that were sort of getting, you know, they were vintage mics as well. And so I thought everyone's looking at the four and six, I'm just going to get one secondhand and see if I like it. And it's arrived. And I've been using it for that length of time. And every time I switch to something else. I just want to go back to it because it's so dependable that the self noise is so low for traveling. Like I've chucked it into suitcases. It's gone. It's done. Yeah, 10s of 1000s of kilometers with me. And it's it performs like a brand new and even though it's about 30 years old. It's just It astounds me How could these mics?
Peter Dickson
Now let's talk about mic position. Toby so you I'm, I'm probably working with my mic right now where I would normally work down above me toward pointing downwards. Your your mic is pointing upwards. So yes, which is best.
Toby Ricketts
And I know I when I first chatted to Hugh a few years ago, and he saw my thoughtful one six pointing up from my from my desk into my mouth. He was like that's a bit interesting. Like everyone does it top down. And I feel like it works, it can work better coming from the bottom because like it then it kind of gets a little bit of the warmness of chest as well, you know, like it was traditionally used of up above because on movie sets, you know, that was the only place off camera that you could have it. And then But then of course you get proximity effect, the base rolls off and you get you get sort of a cut through sort of thin effect. But if you're doing a nice warm narration, then these mics can get quite warm. You just have to go and get close to them and then watch the Pops and you might technique to make sure that it doesn't. This does pop up a lot and I've got two pop filters on there at the moment and I vary the distance depending on
Peter Dickson
the they do they do pop, I mean, I use mine, I'm just you, I've got a higher above me than I would normally have, because we're on vision vision, but I would normally use mine about here. And so you can get quite close to it and get cozy. But I've got this metal filter in front of it. And the reason I have it above me is because I work I very rarely use paper, I've got a screen a very large screen here in front of me. And my where I'm where I'm looking now is where I have my recording window. So I will sit and probably have that down about here. And I will read off this screen and have one eye on them on the levels and everything and then go back to editing. But I didn't have it there is because I like having it out of the way. And I don't think I don't have to think about the microphone, I don't worry about popping it because I never going to pop it here. Because I'm not in front of it.
Toby Ricketts
I mean, I I started doing it from underneath because I my screen is directly in front of me like I'm talking directly to my screen now. It's one of those big GM wide curved ones from from Samsung. So it's like it sort of fills your whole field of view. And I was worried about reflections from the screen. And like if you get to a screen it reflects back. And the best way for these mics is like they reject 100% of what comes at them from the rear. So my idea was to have it so that the mic was coming straight up from the screen so that it wasn't picking up any of that reflection. But then that's right where I'm trying to read so I'd moved it down so that I could still I could still gesticulate and still have a clear field of view. Basically that was kind of my your script.
Peter Dickson
Do you still work off paper? Do
Toby Ricketts
No, no, no, it's all completely digital. I have a printer, which doesn't even work. I think I haven't printed something for a very long time. So
Peter Dickson
where is your script? When you're really good on the screen in front of you? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right, you split the screen between your script and your and your recording window.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, well, actually, to get super geeky on I've got the I've got the Asus Zenbook laptop, which has got two screens in it, it's got one on the keyboard, and then one up, and then I've got this external screen up there. So instead of having a screen which goes left to right, I've got a screen that goes up to down. So I look down on the desktop and I can see my zoom window or anything live stuff in the main laptop window sort of down here, I've got the recording windows, making sure everything and then the script is directly in front of me. So I'm predicting straightforward, and then the camera up there. So I've got this kind of like look up look down system, instead of which is great for like your mic technique. Because if you're turning your head around there, you can hear that you lose the crispness of your voice, etc. So it's better to dance down than it is.
Peter Dickson
So always want to keep, you always want to keep your head at the same distance from the mic and the same position Exactly. Throughout the whole process. And so I always think it's very important. An old engineer in London always taught me long ago, Mike positioning is one of the keys to getting this right. So you once you've established your mic position, I put I'm very foot I'm anal about I'm fussy, so I will spend ages. So it getting it in the right place where I feel it's not obstructing my field of view. And I'm feeling on the right distance from it like a hand span away. And I'm not going to pop the mic, so I don't have to worry about that. I take my cans off, actually, I've got a pair of headphones here, which I used to, you know, set, set things up with, and I can hear it. And once I'm happy with that, I've put that I always put them away, and I never use them when I'm recording, I'll always sit here and I'll go, right, I'm confident that what I'm going to do next is going to give me a good result. And I'm happy with the position the scripts in the right position, I've got it on the screen, and I'm recording my audio here. Let's go. And then I ignore all that technical stuff. Because what I'm then focused on is the content of what I'm reading, rather than worrying about the technology or the the engineering side of things, which really you don't want to be thinking at all about when you're performing. Because once you start thinking about whether whether it's right level or pop, am I popping, you know, you start to your your thoughts are with other things rather than the subject matter at hand. So that's the only reason I do that. Yeah, I think
Toby Ricketts
I was gonna say like one of my advices to people who are starting out and building this sort of first studio is try and find a permanent place you can set it up, don't be setting it up every time you need to do an audition because it will you'll have no consistency in your sound. If you do that. You know, it's good to find a cupboard or a wardrobe or somewhere where you can leave it set up so that you do have that consistency. And recently I've been doing this this project for the History Channel voicing a 10 part documentary series. And one of the things I've been struggling not struggling with but one of the things that I've been very conscious of is the need for consistency. And the fact that even if you move something in your studio or you're just sitting in a slightly different place, you'll listen to the two audios from separate episodes or pickups and they won't quite fit together. Yeah, and that's aside from just the normal voice like your voice chimes day to day basis. Yeah 100 days a big thing. So that's what you know, you've done a great number of documentaries, have you sort of rationalized the the consistency and you get back into that same character that you're playing in another episode?
Peter Dickson
It's very, very good, very interesting question. Most of the documentaries I've done have been, I do a whole episode in one studio, and I've never done a documentary in my studio. I've always gone into town to do it. So I've done it in London. And so I leave it with the engineer to try and match the sound. But of course, episode two episode is not so important. But more importantly, you know, when you're when you're in audio books, that's I read my I wrote my own book and read my own my own biography. And that was the first very first time I'd ever done a long form, piece like that. And that was one of the most challenging things I think I ever did, from a point of view of a voiceover and also from the point of view of engineering it because you're right, you come in, you do a day, and and then you come in the next day, and you think, well, I've got to listen back to what I did before and try and recreate the same sound because the listener is going to be maybe going from chapter one to chapter two within the space of 10 seconds, whereas I've had a 24 hour gap. And so I have to kind of be aware of that. And and it's not always easy to do, but you have to, once you've started your mic position, I marked it, I took a photograph of the studio, that this is where my mic is this through my chair is I need to keep that constant all the way through the recording. And because the studio, the walls don't change, that's, that's okay. But I knew I had to make sure the mic was in the same position. I was in the same position. And my script was in the same position and everything sounded the same. And the levels of course, I had to make sure were the same. So it was. So that was a challenge because you're always thinking about the engineering and the the sound and not really initially focused on the words. So once you've got all that sort of sorted out, you had to sort of say, well, let's forget all that. That's when I know that's sorted. Let me focus on the script.
Toby Ricketts
Absolutely. One of the things that I noticed I had this weird resonance in my studio for one day, and I said, where's that noise coming from? Well, I found this but tell me what yours was my was this water bottle being empty. And because it rings he had it that's got a kind of a yes. And just because it was down here and it was empty, it put like a boost in the certain frequency. And it was, you know
Peter Dickson
what mine was? What was mine was and I couldn't work out what it was sounded like it was an odd frequency ringing it was sort of like a, like an echo or some sort of resonance somewhere. I thought it's not in here because this is pretty dead this room. And I suddenly worked out what it was, and it was my old pop filter was made from it was a it was a nylon in a ring rather like this one. Yeah, this is a metal one. So it doesn't resonate. I suddenly worked out that my my voice was hitting this pop filter, and it was going boom, it was a booming a boom I get like a drum head almost like a drum at the end of every sentence. It was what is that? What does that entail on the on this shouldn't be there. And it worked out it was this this old pop filter I had and of course I got rid of it immediately. And I bought this metal one, which is very closely
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, the Stedman screens are available now but they adapt they're very superior.
Peter Dickson
So there's no kind of interference so this old nylon thing was resonating with my breath voice and hitting the mic and creating this odd kind of booming sound at the end of every sentence. You're right about screens in front of you though, you know I was worried about I've got a big screen here big screen here. But this 416 rejects everything from the back and so
Toby Ricketts
this so direction was just amazing how directional they are which is which is great for for spaces that aren't at optimum kind of treatment. Yeah definitely find at the moment I've got a resonant problem with I'm storing a drum kit in this mezzanine floor above and every time I make it I do a really buried with big projection I hear it just going this is the drum hits pick up that sound it's funny but you get sensitive to when you when you pick it up like that. So what does a normal day look for you look like for you at the moment like I mean when I'm tempted to do these pie charts of like when you're a beginner voiceover all your time is going to be looking for work and you know, occasionally doing work and then and then doing editing in your work but when you reach sort of like our level and you're working full time as a voiceover artist, and you're a few years down that track it's less time looking for work and just time doing work you know, so what what is your kind of like percentage that I do still have to look for work or does it all to arrive, neatly packaged in brown paper on your door?
Peter Dickson
No, I, you're right, though the early days, it's a question of establishing yourself and and I'm at a position now where I have an agent, and a fan of several agents when agent in the UK and two in the US. So they bring me stuff. And also, to my day starts like because I come in here and I sit down and I open up my emails and there's usually a bunch of auditions that are required from my US agent. The UK is operates completely differently. The UK agent never ever asked me to audition. So in the UK you don't it's just unreal. Just this is great. Yeah, it's all on demo reels. Yeah. And I'm, I'm, in a way I love I like that. Because, you know, in some ways, I do quite like auditioning, though, because it gives me the chance to experiment and do stuff. Yeah. And the thrill of the chase, and practice and the thrill of the chase. Yeah, and 90% of the time in those American auditions, I never get the gig. But that doesn't bother me so much. I think part I think I've kind of conditioned myself to believe and think that my job is to audition. And that's what the job is. And while you're auditioning, you're also practicing and getting better. So it gives me the opportunity to also, you know, see what's out there to see what people want and understand the client's demands and wishes, and what the current trends are. And so I value that very much Lee, but I wish that, you know, the US would book more off demo reels rather than auditions, when it comes
Toby Ricketts
on, because they used to do that a lot than they used to be more about they did now with with the advent of especially since COVID, it's you know, it's really ramped up in terms of having to audition for everything. And often now, I mean, they, you know, it's like a two page script, we need you to read the whole thing. So you got like, 200 Voiceover artists spending, you know, 15 minutes looking at the script, and you think, Geez, they're only gonna choose one person.
Peter Dickson
I know, just let us why did why did they do the two pages just do two lines, you can tell within five seconds, whether you're right or wrong,
Toby Ricketts
often, you know, the rub is these days is that the client will decide on the voiceover, they want to see the they want to see the entire thing basically produced, it's like walking to a restaurant and saying, I want to taste everything on your menu, you know, just so that I'm sure I'm going to get the right one. And so that's I mean, that's the rationale is that they want to cut it with picture and then show the client and get the client basically all the way across the line before they engage with the voice of Alice, which is kind of putting more, you know, honest back on the voiceover artists in a way. I mean, I do like auditioning, but sometimes it's kind of taking the test when, you know, you do have to record a long script. Yeah, and I'm not sure that time. But that doesn't seem to be reflected in the UK, like you're saying,
Peter Dickson
I do I do question that. Mostly, I say, would really you need me to read all of this? And, you know, wonder whether they? Well, I know they don't, but I just kind of have this slight, slight, slight feeling. They might use it without telling you. But I don't think I don't think that's going to help you do
Toby Ricketts
hear stories. Like I'd never do that on a p2p. But often there's there's a lot of trust is the trust game with an agent. And you know, you have to kind of just put it out there and hope because there's no chance of ever policing it and finding it yourself. It was used. So it says it is a tricky trust game that we often sort of play with with clients. But do you do self agent at all as well? Or do you make everything go through your your agent?
Peter Dickson
Go do some some SELF SELF SELF sort of administered work. But not much. I mean, I I mean, I often find that, well, it's quite difficult to price yourself particularly in in a more complex, complex scenario where they're saying, we want to use you in this territory in that territory. And I could sit down, I suppose, and use the grave of the brain that makes great guide. But time is of the essence and a lot of these things. And they say, Can you can you do this? And how much would it be? And I forgot, I've no idea. So I could work it out. But it would take me half an hour. And I just said, my agent will do all that and they do it really well. And my agent has been marvelous. And most of the time, they they would ask for more money than I would have the nerve to ask for even the ability to score. And so you know, even though I pay them a decent percentage is quite, it's quite good to have an agent because they can deal with the payment of the invoicing and also the recovery of the funds of the funds as well at the end. And so, you know, I'm happy to give it to them. But the smaller jobs are the sort of more basic kind of easier to price jobs. I'm happy to do that directly with clients and I do
Toby Ricketts
see a lot of you know, new talent coming through who may have set up a studio and got the sort of got the job. Thank you As soon as I get an agent, that's it, the work will just start pouring in. So it's probably worth saying that, like, it's not, it's, it's not always like that, that you have an agent, because I've got, I think I've got six agents in the US and New Zealand and I did have an agent in the UK, I'm looking for another one, if there's any agents watching, but like, you know, it's it's, I feel like you're you have to be right at the top of your game in order to just make a living off what your your agent gives you. But often people think that it's the ticket to doing time like that, once you get an agent, it's that you're away laughing. But I feel like that the the new way, especially in the in the US is is for the sort of self agency model or a hybrid next bit that you're doing with where you some work comes from your agent. And then you know, some possibly majority of the work comes from a mix of paper plays, direct marketing, all kinds of you know, there's, I remember doing, you know, webinars on this stuff, and there's this, when you really look into it, there are so many avenues that you can get voice work from, if you really investigate them. And an agent is just one of them, you know, and possibly a dwindling one. I mean, I think there's definitely still a place for agents in the world. But it's definitely not what it used to be. Because now people have their own studios and clients have lower budgets, there's a lot more work around. But I think the the average price of voiceover work has come down probably at the bottom that we that we thought
Peter Dickson
it was oh, no, but I think we're seeing more of a stratification of the market. But where were the top 25th is Asian workers, the top is the best voices, the ones who are the famous actors, the big names, they will always be in that top, top fifth. And then you get lower levels where you get the people who don't aren't big names, they're not the famous voices famous faces, that I'm still getting quite good quality work there, the next layer down and then you will have another layer of the sort of more basic staff and then there's more self administered work. And then there's the, you know, the pay to play sites. And then there's the fiber loss in the very bottom, you know, so there's, there's room for everybody. I'm not not kind of denigrating anyone in his layering. But it depends where you where you rise to. And, you know, you can, you can also work in all these different levels. I mean, I don't work on the very bottom, I don't do any, I don't promote myself on Fiverr, I don't even do pay to play now anymore. So not that I ever did anyway, but greatly, but I've been involved with a few of them. However, I, I don't anymore, because I don't have to I'm luckily thank God, I'm in a position where, you know, I've got enough client I know worked hard. And I've got a client base, that people come back to me and asked me to do stuff on a repeat annual basis. And, and I'm very happy to have that ongoing and that's the ideal position to get to where you know, if you start out on pay to play, and you start out doing five, or you build your, your client base, to a point where you come off those platforms, and you just work directly with those people. That's the aim.
Toby Ricketts
Absolutely, yeah, yes. Someone that's probably sort of transitioning into that into that kind of life, I've definitely found that like, as the years go on, just the level of repeat work comes up. And so you don't need to hunt as much about farming your clients, you know, it's like you turned from a hunter into a farmer. And that can lead to a more settled sort of life where you can pick and choose a bit more about the things that actually speak to you, that you want to do rather than things that you sort of have Yes, because you have to pay the bills or whatever. Yeah, so. So tell me about some of your other interests. It was fascinating doing the research on this because like there's there's a great number of sort of fan sites and things popping up about your career, etc. But you're also you've, you're into aviation a lot. Is that right? You've had a long history. Yes,
Peter Dickson
I guess I know that when I was at university, I joined the by accident, I think more than by design, the university Air Squadron, which is a program run by the Royal Air Force within the universities in the UK. And they have I think about six or seven sites in the UK where universe where universities are and they encourage people to join to Fly Light aircraft. With the view I've got I think it is completely selfish viewpoint from their point of view to encourage you to become a pilot in the in the Air Force, or join the Air Force in some capacity. So yes, I joined the University Air Squadron when when I was in the second year of university and spent three glorious years flying Scottish aviation Bulldog aerobatic aircraft, which was great fun. But I never flew privately after that I just flew through for years, but I've maintained my relationship with the Air Force and I still again in it because I was I didn't join the Air Force obviously I joined the BBC and became a journalist and a voiceover actor. So I but I'd like to maintain my relationship with them so I do help them a lot. I do a lot of award ceremonies for them free of charge. I do a lot of pro bono work with the
Toby Ricketts
Air Force and you can get typical kind of thing. So they give you the occasional plane ride to say thank you. They do they do.
Peter Dickson
I've had a few play, which is great and I don't demand it but I just think isn't they just occasionally said to me, do you want to come and fly in a fast jet? I say, Oh yeah, it'd be nice. I've done a few fun fast jet trips and a few transport aircraft. Yeah, it's been great fun. I love it.
Toby Ricketts
fast jets would be a different experience altogether because we saw aviation.
Peter Dickson
And I flew, I flew in a typhoon and a tornado or which are two of the tornadoes, sadly, has been retired from the Air Force by flew, flew in the last year of his life, which was brilliant. And the typhoon was the Eurofighter, that's a really a spectacular, aircraft very fast, did a performance takeoff in that that was, you know, talked about nought to 60 in two seconds, it was like being kicked in the back by a couple of donkeys. And we go up, we go up to we're within two seconds, you're at 10,000 feet, and then within and, you know, these push the throttles forward in your supersonic. But, you know, it's incredible. And what an aircraft and I have that had to have the privilege of flying in the back of one of those was amazing. I loved every second Ave, I love my association with the, with the Royal Air Force. So yeah, I still maintain my, my, my links.
Toby Ricketts
Brilliant. And you've also dabbled in a lot of TV work, which I wasn't as aware of in terms of like, you know, you've done writing for TV shows as well like with them, you know, TV credits, what are some of the sort of highlights from like, I guess, like, as a bigger question, maybe another question. How does onscreen work compare to being behind the mic and being the kind of invisible TV star, because they're quite different I imagined
Peter Dickson
they are. And I've always tried to be behind the scenes, I never really wanted to be a TV star and never watch TV star never, never really want to be. I've done a few I've done a bit of on camera work. And I do enjoy it, as we said, but I've never sought to be in front of the camera as a sort of ongoing mainstay of my business. We're voice actors, and that's where we like to stay behind the scenes and do our thing without being seen. That's one of the that's one of the perks for me is not being visually famous
Toby Ricketts
Nick market and having you know, well, yes, people know who you are, but they don't instantly recognize you like they would you know, Brad Pitt or
Peter Dickson
so my voice in the UK is is is very well now. I've been doing it for two years. So my on radio and television. So my voice I guess I was told this by a friend of mine the other day said, you know, your voice has seeped into the consciousness of the unconsciousness of the British public. And when people meet me for the first time they say I know you from somewhere I can't quite place where you're from. I know your voice You know, I've seen and then I say what I've done you know I've done X Factor Britain's Got Talent Live at the Apollo all star value fortunes, the prices, right catchphrase, loads of different TV shows, and radio commercials, TV commercials, games, you name it. I've done more or less all of it over 40 years, I've been constantly on on the on all the channels. And so people do know me my voice but they don't know me don't know me personally, or they don't know what I look like. So it's it's quite interesting that you can have that high level profile without having the all the bad stuff that goes with fame. Yeah, exactly.
Toby Ricketts
I was kind of surprised to see how many games you've done. And I was curious to ask about how you see yourself as a character voice. Yeah, I mean, in some senses, like I tell students, all all voiceover work is kind of a character. Like even when you're doing a straight corporate voiceover you're playing the part of the corporate straight voiceovers and how people normally talk. But for his or your game roles, like quite a departure from your, your sort of straight vo stuff like do you do accents and they do do realist voices do you do cartoon voices? Like how what's the scope of your kind of like, your your the range of your voiceover work?
Peter Dickson
Yes, you're right, dude, every voice job is an acting job. And I think sometimes the more and more that people will want you to be you. And I think particularly in commercials, they say we know you have to be a real they have to sound like an authentic person. A conversational style is very much in demand. But in terms of gaming, yes, I mean, I do all kinds of characters. I served on Americans. I've been zombies. I've done world war two pilots. I've been Russian submarine captains. I've done you know, fantasy characters, wizards warlocks, you name it in all ages and different accents. So I do love doing that though. That is for me, pure voice acting. And but it's just An aspect of voice acting like all of it is, and whether it's a corporate voice ever you're right, or whether it's a playing Russian submarine captain, you're playing somebody that's not you. And so I do, I don't really differentiate between it very much, I think it's probably not very helpful. So I think you need to sort of approach every job and give it the what it does, what it's designed, what you what you can give to it. So, I, I'm afraid, I can't really differentiate any of it. But I do love all of it. And probably, you know, I've been I've been a master of all, no jack of none, all my life. But I've always sort of taken the view that, you know, if I was just to concentrate on one thing, say, gaming, you know, I would probably be unemployed now, because these things go in cycles. So I've always likened my career to spinning plates, I've got seven plates spinning, promos, commercials, gaming, light, entertainment, television, corporate, audio, corporate video, you know, animation, you know, whatever it might be. So I'm going to keep all these things going as much as I can, because I don't differentiate between any of them. And I'm not pretending are an expert in all of them. But I think it to have an established career. When I had it, I'm not sure. That I don't think is quite the case now, because people are specializing in when I was sort of going through the peak of my career, I wanted to do all of it and be good at all of it. So I did. But it's an interesting question. Because nowadays, I think, with the advent of availability of people, in Digital Studios, all around the world. So I could people can hire you as well as they can hire me, and they didn't used to be able to do that. So I think nowadays, it's more important to have something one or two things that you specialize in, rather than being the, the jack of all trades and the master of none. So what do you specialize in? Well, it's
Toby Ricketts
interesting, because I've found I've fallen, I've fallen into a few different commercial categories. And I didn't expect to like in terms of like, you know, that there's commercial, which is, which is a category and I seem to have sort of fallen to that one quite well, which just happens to be a very well paying one, which was very fortunate indeed. But within that category, I seem to be hired mostly for luxury cars and watches. And it's weird that I just keep getting approached for those kind of work. And I wonder whether it's because, you know, you do a piece of work, which then resonates with with with any user on your show reel, and so people it gets out there, and then people see that and want to hire you for their one. And so it's just a rolling ball that just gathers snow, you know, as it goes down the mountain. Yeah, all weather, like, my voice though, the character I play for that particular voice of it, you know, does intrinsically link to that kind of like, you know, wealthy men like to hear this kind of voice or like your, your you sound like our target audience, for example, or something like that. So that's been kind of interesting. And, and more recently, I've, I've found that there are these non traditional kind of, they're not exactly categories and genres of voiceover, which is things like meditation, like conference openers, stuff like that, which is, which are kind of new genres which have crept up, and there seems to be people who are hiring just for that sort of stuff, like, especially conference openers, is very much like, there are conference companies that just do videos for conferences, and they often want to hire a voiceover to do their opening. So
Peter Dickson
I mean, the big missions, the mission statement open, like
Toby Ricketts
a three day conference of ophthalmologists in Chicago and they have a video saying Imagine if the world could see it or something you know, like it's that it's that thing that the big start video where brings everyone together and and they usually go that fear fear budget on them, because they're it's only one time use only be seen by a roomful of people, but they still pay quite well, because they have to set the right tone at the beginning of this conference. So but but there's a lot of things at play, like I was like to imagine, you know, that, that I'm at the conference, and the lights go down, and I've got the mic, and I'm talking to an eye, you have to be spellbinding, you have to actually fill these people's hearts with this excitement that they're on this three day adventure, you know, so like, really living those parts, I think is is a big part of of the voiceover thing. And what I like about these micro genres is you really get to kind of crystallize and imagine what the end person is going to feel from this what rather than finish which is very broad, you know,
Peter Dickson
well, it's critical. I think, most newbies to the business say, How do I how do I do this? How do I get more, more auditions, more bookings? I said, Well, you've got to put yourself in the position of someone who's listening to you know your audience, first of all, and as you rightly say, if you're doing a conference opening, you've got to really when you're performing imagine that audience in the darkened room listening to your and you need to know the music track what Now it's going to play out. There's no point in me projecting very, in a big way, if the music is, you know, very minimal and sort of droney. So I need to know what the producer intends the intention of the piece so that it matches the tone. And it's very important to know that because otherwise, you're just shooting in the dark. But you're right. You're more and more in commercial terms, you the producers, the buyers want you to sound like the person who's going to buy the product or service doesn't you know, you have to sound like you come from their world. And getting into that is the absolute key to success. A no doubt about it. You've got to sound like you come from that world, you got to sound like you know, you're talking about. You can't sound like you're an outsider, you've got to know your audience.
Toby Ricketts
Mm hmm, exactly. What else did I want to ask you about?
Peter Dickson
Yes, I'm having another McKellen, by the way. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, we're
Toby Ricketts
nearly out on this end as well. So it's a good time to refill
Peter Dickson
just a small one.
Toby Ricketts
Exactly. What do you have any routines? Do you have any things that that get you into the character because your your X Factor voice I like to, I can very I can instantly hear your X Factor voice before you do it? Because it's so kind of iconic in that way. Do you want to just give our viewers in case they haven't heard what your X Factor voice sounds like? It's alright. It's quite a character that you play like it's it's quite it's almost a cartoon character. Yeah, you know, it's a caricature, if you like it's not
Peter Dickson
a real voice. No, the voice grew from series, one of the X Factor, which was 16 years ago now, believe it. And if you listened back to me when I started, it was a much tamer beast, and it grew to every years. We really did. Yeah, it did. Because the show ratcheted up, and the production values increased year on year, and more money was spent up as it as the show is the format became more successful. ITV, the commercial broadcaster, decided this was a show that on Saturday night, they were going to spend money on. And it was it was a cash cow. And so they chuck more money and more money and everything went suddenly, from the small room to the big room to the big big room, the big studio, the lighting, the sound, the sight sets, all became much more much more kind of elaborate and much more glamorous. And as the shirt as the series progressed, I was, as a viewer was watching it, I thought, I've got to change my I've got to make myself I've got to go with this. So I'm became each year bigger and bigger and Brasher and ended up with me 16 years down the line in my voice sessions, you know, bleeding like a Bond villain from my eyes, and, and sweating. And literally, I had to have studio, whether it was in here or in London, wherever I did the voiceover I used to say to the to the studio people, I said, Look, when I come in, I want this studio chilled. Sure about 12 degrees, because when I'm going to go for it, I do go for it big time, I'm actually exerting myself so much that I would sweat and Puffin pant and go red in the face. And the veins of my neck would would come up and I said, Look, I can't do this in a Hot Studio has to be cold. And I need a towel in there as well. Because I'm going to be sweating like a pig oxygen I did. And so I that's how it happened. So every year got bigger and bigger. And nobody told me to do this. I just took it upon myself because I thought if they don't tell me, nobody gave me any, any guidance or advice. I just started to push the boat out Nietzsche, I pushed a bit more and I'd wait to see if anybody complained. Nobody did. And then it began to get gathered like mosque gathers, like a stone rolling stone gathers mass, it began to go to build its own momentum. And then I realized that people were actually enjoying my voiceover performances. They were sort of imitating me and taking, taking the, the voiceover of the show, as part of as one of the elements of the show. And it was very nice to see that I I just took it upon myself to make it what it was. So I'll give you an example of what it was like there's a big phrase on the show, which which is comes at the end of the title sequence, which usually was a recap of what happened on the week before and it ends with Carl offs, wonderful music, oh for tuna, which everybody now knows. And my famous line was, it's time to face thumb music and then to be a huge action It's a sort of graphic coming through London and smashing into Wembley, and they blister off and in Sparks. And they'd zoom in on from the back of the audience over the audience heads onto the stage, and the show would start. And so that was that was quite something. And I think it was quite, I wanted to make it as big and as bombastic and as sort of ridiculous as I possibly could. And was the show was that
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, exactly. And it's, it must sort of feel nice to be the one of the contributors to an icon, you know, has become iconic in the UK, that that that intro in that sequence, I imagined?
Peter Dickson
Yes, I think, you know, nobody knew it was going to be like that. And when I got the, got the job, it was very, sort of an unremarkable hiring because I was in America and a friend of mine, he was the sound supervisor on a show I'd been doing before in the UK called test the nation, which was kind of like an IQ test show with Philip Schofield. And Anna Robinson, who UK viewers will know. He, he rang me up and he said, I'm working on this new show called What's the working title of The X Factor? Nobody's ever heard of it. And they're looking for a voice to do it. And we can't find somebody that suitable. And I've worked with you recently. Would you like to have a go? And I said, Well, send me send me something. And I've looked at it. And he sent me this. They sent me this Vimeo link, and I looked at it and I thought, Oh, my goodness, this is, this is right up my street, I could definitely lend value to the show. So I emailed him back said yes, I'd be very interested. And they sent me a script, just to sort of have a go at it. I sent him some samples by on mp3, from from America. And next day, they hired me, I got the job for series, one of the X factor was brilliant. And never looked back.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, the rest is history. And, like, I think I feel like, you know, when you look at great performances that people like, when you look at it on YouTube, there are those you can see the audition tapes for certain, you know, iconic roles as they turned out. And you can always tell that the people are giving more than 100%. Like they're absolutely committed to the character like that. That's the sign of a really great performance is commitment to it to it, which you know, you
Peter Dickson
have to know glad you mentioned that word commitment is the word it is exactly. It's it's a committed committing yourself to the line fully, more than fully.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, exactly. And it works in other genres like, like, you look at the great news, any volunteers, it's because absolutely channeling, they're completely giving in to the feeling that music gives them and going with it. And it's exactly the same with VoiceOver I find the best performances you give a when you just let go and you go as far as you need to to get the ground.
Peter Dickson
We're not talking about shouting or bickering back there. But like, all performances, you're right. You have to be at one with the script and and be sympathetic to it. But give 100% It's almost like surrendering to it and commit commit to it. Yeah, you
Toby Ricketts
know why? on yourself or anything? No, no, no, it's
Peter Dickson
not, it's not going over there. I'm not I think people may misinterpret this by thinking, like, we need to go over the top. And that's not what it's about. It's about being in flow with the copy in sympathy with the copy, understanding your audience. And once you've done all that sort of processing, then you are committed to and you have a purpose, a sense of purpose to it. But committing to the lines, God Yeah, that's what it's all about. Whether it's a poem or a shouting on a TV show, it's just, it's being in in the right moment and understanding your purpose.
Toby Ricketts
Absolutely. So looking back over your your lengthy career, are there any pieces of work that really stand out for you and stuff that you're really proud of?
Peter Dickson
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I did a show, an animation series years ago, called Monkey test and it was was very well received in the UK dinner where that was when I think it did go worldwide actually, because I still get some residual payments from from from sales around the world, but it was an animation series produced by a friend of mine. And it was so well done. It was way ahead of its time. And it was it painted a rather dark picture of Britain in the 1990s but it was still it still stands up to scrutiny today. And it was one of those shows that has become a kind of a it's developed a cult followings. It's kind of like a bit culty but it's it's still there. It still gets shown on youtube if it's a what called monkey do this is that there's episodes on those clips on YouTube You monkey does,
Toby Ricketts
what character did you play with?
Peter Dickson
Well, I played the classically trained actor. Some might say it was, was typecasting. I was a voiceover artist who played the voiceover artist too, who really wants to be more wanted to be a classical actor. And he was always frustrated by the fact that he was always casting in a voice ever Oh, selling products that nobody wanted to buy. So either way, it's kind of art imitating life. And I often think back on that, I think, well, I'm actually I am actually I had that character. I've always been frustrated. I've always wanted to be a Shakespearean actor, but I never made I always end up selling furniture or shouting that cars off, or pizzas or whatever. And
Toby Ricketts
that's hilarious. And it is funny how you end up sort of coming back to those those things sometimes that? Yes, yeah. I've definitely found that like, in my voiceover career, like saying that you're going to do something or making a goal. Just lengthen. It never never works.
Peter Dickson
I never, I've never, you can set goals all your life, but obviously, life will throw you curveballs occasionally and you'll end up going down another weapon. Expected. Yeah, you don't know, never, I've never planned my career as such, I've never had a plan. And people watching this might be quite horrified. And the same time pleased about that. Because, you know, you just got to go with the flow sometimes, and the flow may not take you in the direction that you want to go, but is the direction that the market wants you to go because you're getting that work. No, I just don't, I don't think you should have too hard and fast and opinion about your career direction that is
Toby Ricketts
true, because I was going to say that setting goals at least gives you like the point at which you want to head towards you know, because if you if you don't know where you're going, then you're sure to get there. You know, it's that that whole thing of like, if you're just paddling aimlessly in the sea to nowhere, then you're you're just going to go around in circles. But if you do have that, that kind of island on the horizon that you're swimming towards, at least you'll make progress towards that island. But I think what you say is very true in terms of don't be too hard and fast with I have to do this and I have to do this. Like sometimes it's like if this great role comes up and it's not really in your genre, have a go at it, just do it and see where it listen
Peter Dickson
to what the market gives you, you know, the market will they will decide what you're good at. And if you don't know what you're good at, try everything. But some sometimes, at some point, somebody will say actually, this is where you should this is what you're good at, this is what you should be doing and don't fight it. In the Loop. There'll be certain veins will open up to you and you'll go Oh, actually, I hadn't thought of that. But actually this is working around getting a lot of work in this area and just go with it and may not be the area you even thought you'd be good at. But the market market will decide
Toby Ricketts
oh, there you go. Let I'm typecast as luxury cars and watches some of this is worse because
Peter Dickson
there are worse places to be. And you you you what I like about you is you work in all kinds of territories. You You Are you you've got a you're a master of accents. So you can you can work in the American market and in the Australian New Zealand market in Canada or wherever, wherever else you want to work. So you you adapt your accent Yeah, to the market.
Toby Ricketts
You're funnily enough, my biggest product is being British for Americans. So it's like Americans like me as a British guy. So it's um, it's because
Peter Dickson
it's because you don't sound too British or posh. Yeah, too threatening, or Yeah,
Toby Ricketts
something like that. Yeah, exactly. Like the accent I've created for my British kind of persona is is not actually a kind of a British accent that British people have. That's what it's the accent the American people think British people have got it very JMeter, isn't it?
Peter Dickson
I know. Isn't that funny?
Toby Ricketts
So I know, We're nearly out of time. But I wanted to ask you quickly about some I mean, obviously what what, what how we met and what binds us is gravy for the brain, the wonderful product of the voiceover career platform, which people watching this probably be familiar with. How did that all start? And how did that kind of the grow?
Peter Dickson
Well, it grew from a bricks and mortar business that Hugh Edwards and I started we, well, he came to me, I had worked with you as as a as a voice actor, and he was a director on a couple of games. And he said to me, you know, I'm fed up working with no, it wasn't working for me, but he said, um, there's a very small roster of people I work with, and it's quite limiting. In London, and, you know, it's an I try, I've tried, he said to bring new people in, but I ended up hiring people who have never done games before and they come in and they don't know what they're doing and I'm doing and they're practicing in front of clients. And that's not ideal when you've got somebody from Sony sitting in the in the booth and you're floundering as a newbie, not knowing what to do, because the the skill sets required for voice acting in games is quite different from the ones you need to know about for, for instance, doing a promo or commercials So he said to me, how do you fancy creating a course for people to do to do to learn how to do gaming voice? I said, Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. So we created this course, a bricks and mortar course for no more than about 10 people. And we ran these on couple of Saturdays every month in London, we hired a studio, we advertised, people came, and they absolutely loved it. And it was it was it was tiring and exhausting and time consuming. But we enjoyed teaching. And so we then reached the natural conclusion as you would, where we we'd like to be more demand than we could feel filled. So we wanted to reach more people. And so the only way to do that is to go on online. So we developed a rudimentary, it wasn't called gravy for the brain back then. But it was called something else. But we had an online course as well as the bricks and mortar course and, and then we thought, well hang on a minute, we could branch this out into other areas of voice episode, corporate, commercial, and then teach Studio, you know, building and engineering and all the rest of that goes with with with their voiceover career and we so kind of grew sort of exponentially from that point. And gravy for the brain was born. Not not not the, the name actually is quite interesting, because it was it was born out of the desire to create an online business that would educate people in all kinds of things, not just voiceover X was going to be a platform that could teach you how to do you know how to knit or how to make pottery or be a waiter or whatever it might be. So grieving for the rain was the sort of umbrella concept. But then we thought we know nothing about pottery or waiting a table. And that was a bit too sort of vague. So then we would be really crazy, the platform the and the URL and the name so stark. And people always ask us why why you call grave as the brain? Why is it not got any voice ever reference? And that's why because we were intended to be a much broader church than it eventually ended up but but in a way, you know, graves The reason it's so unusual name that people you know, remember it?
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, yeah. Which is kind of the most important thing these days in the in the sort of the busy sea of the internet, trying a catchy thing that people can just remember which they've seen somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's fantastic. It's so similar to your original courses to the voice academy that I run. And the thing that I, I always I get so much energy from is the fact that people who do come on these courses and people who braved the rain, it's such a thrilling job in a way like when you have a go at voiceover and especially in the bricks and mortar studio, that's a really fancy studio, and there's people listening and everything. It's like an adrenaline rush the same as going in a fighter jet or something like it really, really is. It moves people like to their to their core,
Peter Dickson
oh, um, we've had people crying and our courses, not online, I don't see that. Most people are crying. But I don't know why they cry. But they came into our into our course. And what we used to do, this was a really fascinating process. We took 10 People in at nine o'clock in the morning in the studio, we said $7. And here's the script, it was a piece of gaming copy. And as we asked each of them to go to the microphone, and read the lines, and we recorded them, which they did. And then we took them through a whole process of teaching them how to do what they needed to do, how to create characters, and they we would do workshops with them and talk to them about committing to the line that we talked about earlier on and being full of purpose and commitment. And at the end of the day, by five o'clock they'd been through the wringer and, and had learned an awful lot in those those hours with us. And then we got to do exactly the same copy again at the end of the day. And they both they all read the copy the end of the day and we recorded them. And then by six o'clock the engineer had chopped by all these pieces together back to back each each person 10 times. And we sat them down in a comfy chair is it now to demonstrate how far you've come in these eight hours, I want you to sit down and have listened to your initial performance back to back with your final performance exactly the same copy. See what you think. And that was for me, the the real lightbulb moment for for me and for them because they listened to their initial performance which was work on like, it was all the right words in the right order, but no purpose, no commitment, no intention. And then the second reading In most cases, was so dramatically different, that they just blew them away they thought and every, every time we human, I would sit and watch this and listen. And we'd see their faces just go, Oh, my God, this is exactly been a fantastic experience. And we we really understand now, what you mean when you say commitment, purpose and understanding of the copy and getting into the character. And so that contrast was so stark, that they went away, and they never forgot.
Toby Ricketts
And the ability for them to take that skill into their own lives, that's the big thing that I find like that people suddenly have control over their voice, which they didn't. And when they arrived on the course, and our voice is what we used to communicate with all the other humans who we come across, like it's their primary communication medium. So I feel like it's so important to learn how to use your voice effectively.
Peter Dickson
I can agree, yeah, and to and to be a good listener, as well, because, as an actor in gaming, you never ever in you're never very rarely, when you're performing. In soloists, you're always in the studio in your own invariably, but you do see the other characters that you're sort of your your lines are against. And I always encourage most of the students in our courses to, to understand the context that they're in and to read the lines into the of the previous character you're working against in your head. So you can well before you read your line, you read the the other characters line that you're reacting to. So the you you're just not, you're not, we're not talking in a vacuum. As such, we are reacting off what they've said. It's a genuine, real. So it's genuinely you're listening in your head to what the other character is saying. And then you go there, just read your lines and ignore what they've because you need to know what's gone before.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, I thank you so much for for staying up and indulging all my questions. Have you got to chat about voiceovers? Well, we haven't covered that you wanted to cover?
Peter Dickson
Well, let me submit a few notes. I'm just going to say very quickly go through. Yeah. Right. So. So I'll just go through this very quickly. There's a scramble to home studios home studios are now the thing everybody wants them. Everybody has them people are comfortable using them remotely. The USA UK differences are quite stark. The UK is now caught up in the USA. So most UK, voice actors have home studios now and producers are happy to employ them from home. Remote studios are now here to stay. So that's important. So studio quality your own home studio is very important. So pay attention to how it sounds. If you don't know how it sounds, ask someone Rob be gravy will help you to iron out any kinks in your studio sound. You need to get connectivity working. So whatever you choose whether it's source connect or ipdtl, or whatever it might be, you will need. Now that ISDN is now defunct and dead, you will need to have a good broadband connection and
Toby Ricketts
be able to know how to use it know how to use. Yeah. And now how
Peter Dickson
to use more than one piece of software. So have several several beating or be proficient in several. So I've got three here got source connect ipdtl. And I also use other proprietary software that I can link to other studios with
Toby Ricketts
this video call and session link Pro and there are clean feed there's so many feeds
Peter Dickson
Very good. Yeah, yeah, they're all good. They all have their drawbacks. Source Connect for USA standard is the Yeah, is the one they want. So yeah, you can also you can get source tech standard, I believe on on a day to day basis as well.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah, this is a subscription based I think it's like weekly or monthly or something. So it's just not part of the session fee really, you could
Peter Dickson
just and the reason they want that is because the algorithm is different. They want that there's a stability with source connect standard that they're using with the free version that you get good stability on the on the signal. Demos. Interestingly, I've noticed that agents are happy to have longer sequences on demos, commercial demos particularly used to be a trend where you have 10 seconds, even shorter snatches
Toby Ricketts
down to about four seconds. It seems their demos are so quick.
Peter Dickson
But it's going the other way. The the trend now is to conversational everyday voices so they want to hear your want to hear more, maybe 15 or even 20 seconds. Which is a trend apparently narrative deliveries probably more narrative delivery. Yeah, longer demos in every genre so used to be you know, you demo. We've been there longer than a minute now. They're getting one minute nine minute 30. And for sort of animations and for corporate, they want two minute demos. So they're getting longer. conversational style very soon still much at the forefront authentic voices. Yes. So, as I said earlier, because producers can hire people from around the planet they don't want me to do in Australia or New Zealand voice accent or whatever it might be. Other than your case to Tony, Toby, you're British voice is so good. People love to hire you. Real accents are very much. And also non binary accents. I see a lot on scripts
Toby Ricketts
that is so different. The inclusivity is a huge thing now.
Peter Dickson
I don't. So I've seen a few auditions come in, where they don't want you to sound too masculine. They don't want the deep sort of masculine voice, they want something slightly non binary. That's an interesting trend.
Toby Ricketts
And also, there's this trend towards like accents to that. But then they're not. Exactly yeah, it's accent from nowhere sort of thing, which, yeah, so I've specialized in over the last few years. But
Peter Dickson
where do you where do you place your nonspecific accent, it's sort of halfway between America,
Toby Ricketts
yeah, to mid Atlantic, but sometimes they want they don't want just British American, they want a bit of Australian in there as well, or sometimes a bit of Chinese, for example, like English as a second language, as well as the British and the and the American, which is kind of which, which is usually a case of just flattening the vowels and making it a bit more percussive. So it just sounds different. But I'd like to stress in my I did an excellent webinar earlier this month, in terms of like, you can't just pretend like you know, the accents and smash them together. Because it sounds like Dick Van Dyke and they're above, it's like, it just sounds all over the place and kind of awkward. So you have to stumble with doing both of the accents. And then just subtly choose to go one side of the line or the other on different lines, just to keep it sort of interesting sounding, you know. But it's a very interesting new growth area, this whole global accent thing, because of the, you know, international companies and corporate interests, having bases and lots of countries around the world wanting to do one video.
Peter Dickson
Yeah. So looking into future trends, I think, certainly authentic voices, or people who sound authentic, as you, as you've demonstrated, you can do are definitely going to be hired. Auditions, if you're auditioning for work, I think, because now we have the pay to play the numbers of people auditioning. And I wouldn't be too concerned about that, because 90% of them, you know, probably aren't going to get hired. So if you're good, you're going to get you're in the top 10%, you're going to be going to be at a chance of being hired. But I think your auditions need to be more daring and more different for everybody else. So you need to find something in the copy that will enable you to stand out. And be yourself. Don't just read the words, perhaps do one take where was the entire script as it's written, and do another take, which is your interpretation of that copy and humility.
Toby Ricketts
Yeah. And Mark Roy, who I interviewed last month, his big thing was just be noticed. Like, it doesn't really matter what you do with the copy because it's going to change in the session, but get noticed. And if they like your voice, like they'll, you know, they're hearing 200 people read the same lines, do something different. Yes, such good advice.
Peter Dickson
You're going to jump you're going to jump out at them. So yes, yeah. So humanize it, personalize it to your own way and try and again, but that making overacting but make it sound authentic and but but do your own interpretation.
Toby Ricketts
Or be yourself like really honestly be yourself because the more reviews
Peter Dickson
the more of you that shows up in your reads the more you'll book
Toby Ricketts
totally Yeah, absolutely. I definitely didn't intend this trip. Well fantastic. I mean it's it's Merry Christmas again, I've got one sip left. It's been able to catch up and what does the What does Christmas look like in the Dixon household?
Peter Dickson
Well, I'm still I usually go to Ireland where are where our families are from, but I won't be going this year because of travel restrictions and various other family issues but I will be staying at home with my wife my son, my two sons are coming to stay with us so it will be four of us Christmas Day and New Year. Who knows I never planned anything so fantastic. I usually I usually don't go out on New Year's Eve because it's usually chaos but I will I like staying at home I like to fire and and have a nice have a whiskey and stuff fairly quiet New Year's Eve usually and and then wake up on New Year's Day. Rather smug with myself that I don't have a hangover. Well, fantast anyway, very much. It'd be it's lovely Christmas. Thank you for asking me. Speaking. Indeed. Cheers. Cheers.